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 Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?

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Jabberwocky Dragons
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PostSubject: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:25 pm

I cannot find much information about Banana's and most of what I've found is contradictory. World of Ball Pythons lists them as co-dominant and with no other AKA's. However, I found this post that says they are also known as coral glows and are a combo of other morphs:

Quote :
If I am correct The banana is a cross between albino whitesmoke and coral glow then combined with the clown. A triple threat."

Quote :
Genetic Morph: Coral Glow, White Smoke, Banana
Status: Proven Dominant
When: 2002
By Whom: NERD


New weapons in the NERD arsenal, the Coral Glows were first produced in November 2002 from our beautiful Whitesmoke Albino male. Several names were batted around for these lavender-and-tangerine gems, but with their sunset coloration the term Coral Glow was soon established. This morph MUST be seen in person to truly be appreciated, as both animals possess an entire spectrum of orange and purple pigments impossible to capture with a camera. To further ice the cake, these vibrant serpents exhibit a random sprinkling of darker scales throughout their patterns. Needless to say, the future for this new mutation is as bright as the mutation itself!

http://www.rcreptiles.com/forum/about83-0-asc-30.html

Is it a sex-linked gene? Assuming coral glows and banana's are the same I found this link...

Quote :
That seems to be the case here. We are looking at the first sexually linked Ball Python mutation. That means the Coral glow gene must reside on the X Chromosone, Dad is in theory XY and mom's are XX.

which was countered by this:
Quote :
According to the chromosome atlas in the university library, male snakes have two Z chromosomes while a female has a Z and a W chromosome. Presumably, a sexlinked gene is found on both of the male's Z chromosomes and on the female's single Z chromosome. The sexlinked gene is not found on the female's W chromosome. This would be similar to the situation in birds


http://www.newenglandreptile.com/forums/showthread.php?9085-Coral-Glow-REALITY-101-You-heard-it-here-FIRST!

I'm just a little confused, especially if this is a base morph or is a combo morph or what. I think they are incredibly nice snakes but are hard to find and I imagine are really expensive. I haven't been able to find much scanning forums or google.

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smb2585
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:54 pm

I heard Brock Wagner is the go to guy for Banana's... this article is from his website

http://brockwagnerreptiles.com/banana-genetics-and-banana-saga

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Jabberwocky Dragons
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:04 pm

Thank you! That cleared a lot up and was a very interesting read. So a sex-linked gene where the chromosomes are reverse from us?!!! Incredible!

One more question though:

Quote :
I did have people some who are very close to me say that they thought the Banana and Coral Glow are separate gene’s. Everyone knows how I feel about it. I don’t believe that. They could be a different as a Butter is to a Lesser.

World of Ball Pythons lists them as two separate morphs, with Banana's introduced by Will Slough and Coral Glows introduced by Nerd at different years. This is incorrect? They are the same gene? Of course they also do not list the gene as sex-linked so I guess you have take WBP with a grain of salt?







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DaganGecko
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:27 am

hmm there has been a lot of interest in bananas lately. I think they are beautiful, but I am also confused as to WHAT they are exactly. Is it one gene or a combination of genes? Is it co-dominant? According to WoBP, it is a "basic morph" that is co-dominant. Hmmm. http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/banana-ball/
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JoeEllisReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 2:56 am

Bananas are considered a base morph. They are incomplete dominate just like pastels, lessers, pins, spiders etc. There is a super and as of now there is a lot of talk on the whole male/female ratio and how to recreate males. Not sure if this helps.

Joe Ellis
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DaganGecko
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:05 am

Hmm, I am a little confused (or ignorant). Please explain "recreating" males? Does the trait exhibit only in females?
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JoeEllisReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:30 am

Males are very hard to come by and hatch out. Female Bananas will throw a male here and there but it seems these males only throw female Bananas. Now a male will pop out here and there which is pretty rare.... this F2 male seems to be the key that recreates more male Bananas. Male Bananas are usually around $50,000 and I have seen females between $13,000 or so. Hope this helps.

Joe
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:24 am

Quote :
Bananas are considered a base morph. They are incomplete dominate just like pastels, lessers, pins, spiders etc. There is a super and as of now there is a lot of talk on the whole male/female ratio

Thanks Joe. So it is it a different morph than coral glows? Has a super actually been created or is it just speculated that there might be one? If it is truly sex linked, which it appears to be, all Females have to be super versions since there would not be another allele to make an incomplete dominant phenotype.

Quote :
Hmm, I am a little confused (or ignorant). Please explain "recreating" males? Does the trait exhibit only in females?

According to the article Stephanie provided, it is a sex-linked trait. The catch is that the sex chromosomes are reversed from ours so Males have two alleles and females have one.
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JoeEllisReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:15 pm

There is a Super Banana. The super is one banana gene on one side ling up with another banana gene on the other. The Sex link just happens to be associated with the morph but does not take over the alleles. I believe the Coral Glow is just another variation of the same gene.... kinda like Phantoms and Mystics.
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:27 pm

Okay, that's really interesting, thank you. I'd love to get one and play around with the gene combinations but I think I'm going to have to wait until it comes down a bit... Beautiful morph!
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JoeEllisReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:13 pm

I agree!! I think 50k is a bit much to spend on one let alone 10k for a female. I think they are amazing but I am afraid the market will crash on them like the spider did once they key in on Making more males.
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:17 pm

I don't know the history of the spider, but I imagine most morphs cost a great deal when they first came out. On the other hand, a lot of the morphs that have dropped low in price seem to be more similar in coloration to normals. Aka spiders are brownish, mojaves have browns, pinstripes are brown, etc...whereas many yellow or light morphs retain high prices (well, genetically they seem to tend toward more complicated combos and recessive genes). I am actually surprised at the fairly cheap prices of ivories and BEL's.
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PostSubject: Re: Can someone shed some light on the Banana Morph?   Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:00 am

most expensive incomplete dominate morph was the fire that looked almost normal for $300,000 a pair. Color has no ties with how the market works on the high end. I do think it has a lot to do with sale once it hit the shop and public market. Spiders went from $9k to $1200 in 3 years. Ivories went up in price the last year based on all the yb, specter, highway, puma alleles..... The market is way different now than it was 7-9 years ago.... I would actually say most dark combo genes are by far more expensive than most light genes..... one a two gene combo anyways
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