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 This Season's Plans

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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:02 pm

The breeding season has already begun for me but here are my plans for this season.

Currently Breeding:

Normal Female (1700g) X 100% Het. Pied Normal Male - plan on keeping all females to breed back to dad - 1 confirmed lock.

Planned Breeding:

Normal Female (2100g) X Dinker Male - he's too small to breed yet but he's 260g and producing sperm plugs so I'm hoping he'll gain the weight in time.

100% Het Axanthic Normal (currently 1013g) X 100% Het Axanthic Normal - Woohoo axanthics!

Pinstripe Female (currently 1200g, still gaining her weight back from last season) X Pastel - If she can get up to 1500g, then I'll breed her to my pastel male to make Lemon Blasts.



So that is 4 possible clutches. What are your plans for this season? What do you hope to have cooking in the incubator next year?
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gatto152
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:32 pm

my plan is to buy that pinstripe female off you haha

But im Going With

Bumblebee x lesser
Pinstripe x pastel



and if you sell me that pinstripe

Bumblebee x pinstripe lol! cryingwithlaughter
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:41 pm

Haha. I have a rule that if I buy it, I keep it. Good luck with your pairings this season! You should post up pictures if you hit the odds on that bumblebee X lesser.
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gatto152
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:46 pm

yea i defiantly will, just trying to find a big enough female lesser and maybe a big enough pin
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:59 pm

My pinstripe girl was 1350g when she laid 5 eggs this season. She lost a good bit of weight but immediately began pounding food and is now up to 1200g. I want her to be at least 1500g before I breed her this season but with the way she's eating, that shouldn't be a problem.

Maybe you can find some at the show coming up. Are you going?
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gatto152
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:05 pm

Yea im going and thats what i was hoping for
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:25 pm

This season our plans changed

We originally were going to pair our bumblebee female to a pinstripe and then try her to a cinnamon but we are going to be trading the bumblebee for a lesser female so this is what we have:

Albino x Albino

Cinnamon x Lesser and also pairing the Pinstripe to the lesser to see what we get...

If the Orange Ghost female is up to size, we will either do Cinnamon, Pin, or Albino to her... those are the only males we have up to size..
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:26 pm

smb2585 wrote:
This season our plans changed

We originally were going to pair our bumblebee female to a pinstripe and then try her to a cinnamon but we are going to be trading the bumblebee for a lesser female so this is what we have:

Albino x Albino

Cinnamon x Lesser and also pairing the Pinstripe to the lesser to see what we get...

If the Orange Ghost female is up to size, we will either do Cinnamon, Pin, or Albino to her... those are the only males we have up to size..

your trading your bee!!!!?????
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:30 pm

Yep. Gunna get a Lesser in her place... they are roughly the same size .. the Bee has a bit of a loopy issue that we are all familiar with from the spider gene...
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:33 pm

i hoping at the expo i can find a adult lesser or cinnamon or pinstiripe
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:57 pm

smb2585 wrote:
Yep. Gunna get a Lesser in her place... they are roughly the same size .. the Bee has a bit of a loopy issue that we are all familiar with from the spider gene...
what do you mean loopy issue?
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ezekiel21
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:59 pm

ax2austin wrote:
smb2585 wrote:
Yep. Gunna get a Lesser in her place... they are roughly the same size .. the Bee has a bit of a loopy issue that we are all familiar with from the spider gene...
what do you mean loopy issue?

im assuming she means the head wobble issue. my male spider wobbles a bit but hits his food the first time everytime and my female doesnt wobble much at all.
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:00 pm

All spider ball pythons (and any morph that has spider in it, like bumblebees, spinners, etc) have a wobble which means they can have something as mild as a head tilt, wobble a bit when excited, or something as extreme as corkscrewing (twisting and curling around when they try to move or strike at food). ALL spiders have some kind of wobble in their life time. My male has a head wobble when he's excited. My friend's spider female just has a head tilt.
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ax2austin
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:05 pm

oh so its not like a temperment issue just looks like he is jammin out every now and then correct?
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:07 pm

ax2austin wrote:
oh so its not like a temperment issue just looks like he is jammin out every now and then correct?

lol, something like that
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:09 pm

lol ok good cuz i got one on the way in a month
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:10 pm

ax2austin wrote:
lol ok good cuz i got one on the way in a month

i think it all depends on the genetics... my spiders wobble but not much and my female hardly does at all.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:15 pm

im not worried about the wobble unless you think i should be its more of a my girlfriend supports my habit but as soon as she sees me get bit or one try striking it goes out the window. me i know i dont have to worry about a little ball biting me and goin to the hospital. its not like they are burmese pythons or retics.lol
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:29 pm

Our girl loops... she is fine when she is in her tub but when you open it or feed her or take her out she loops... not corkscrews... she goes upside down but corrects herself and she doesnt chill/relax... ever unless she is in her tub.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:32 pm

But no I dont think it is an issue but the guy we got her from wants to make us "happy" and thinks we would be happier with the lesser.... we already have a bee female and male and she was just an addition to us because we wanted a breeder... so we are ok with it... Our other bees have no issues... Again the wobble isnt an issue... the guy we got her from just wants us to be super happy and offered... we never complained or anything about her. we just ran into him a couple of weeks ago and he offered to take her back and give us a Lesser
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:50 pm

Lesser Woma x 2900g normal (1 lock)
Lesser Woma x 2700g normal (2 locks)
Lesser Woma x 2600g normal
Lesser Woma x 2200g normal (2 locks)
Lesser Woma x 1700g normal
Lesser Woma x 1850g pastel (2 locks)
Lesser Woma and pinstripe x 1500g pastel (1 lock from lesser woma)
Pinstripe x 2200g normal (1 lock)
and maybe one more Wink

If you need any lesser or woma stuff next spring I might have one or two extra. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:15 pm

Those are two things on my list! Might as well use one rock LOL
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:18 pm

hopeing for pied, leopard lessers, kingpins everything else is head way to future projects...
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:02 am

Everyone has such exciting projects! I wish you all luck! I can't wait till my dinker boy gets some size on him! I need him to breed this season. I'm hoping to get a female that looks like him that I can grow up and breed back to him to see if he is carrying anything. Some people think he's some kind of black pastel type, but we shall see.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:11 am

Still have two long, very long, years to go... It's fun to hear everyone else's plans though! Good luck!
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:14 am

Well, what will you be breeding in two years, Brian? Future season plans are welcome!
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:23 am

Thanks Jesse! Well, I think I'm going to have two main focuses. The first crossing will be some sort of bee x pinstripe with some pastel gene thrown in on both sides. I'm thinking Killerbee x lemon blast and killerbee x whatever else I have to throw him. My other focus is going to be on pieds with at least 2 pied x het pied crosses planned. I hope to merge these two focuses later on and have a decent range of pied codom morphs. I'd really like to throw albinos somewhere in there but I think that may be a little ways off.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:37 am

Sounds awesome.... we were going to do pinstripe x bee this year but our other bee girl will be up to size next year so we will shoot for that next year instead. I love bees Smile
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:41 pm

My long term plan is a triple or even quad recessive. I will produce one before I die. I may be 80 but it will happen. Can you say albino pied clown.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:44 pm

I bet Nick likes the sound of that lol.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:02 pm

ClarkeReptiles wrote:
All spider ball pythons (and any morph that has spider in it, like bumblebees, spinners, etc) have a wobble which means they can have something as mild as a head tilt, wobble a bit when excited, or something as extreme as corkscrewing (twisting and curling around when they try to move or strike at food). ALL spiders have some kind of wobble in their life time. My male has a head wobble when he's excited. My friend's spider female just has a head tilt.

Why would anyone in their right mind knowingly propagate a genetic, neurological disorder? If such selective breeding causes a defective animal, why is it done? For the money?
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:12 pm

I think bumblebees and alot of things with the spider gene are beautiful... I dont necessarily think it is for the money... We have one that is a little loopy/excited when she is out of her tub but our other 2 are just fine... they may grow bigger and begin to show issues, they may not... I think it is kind of a hit or miss thing. I don't think it affects their breeding at all... Have been told by numerous people that a spider or something with spider that exhibits the wobble can produce offsprings with no issues or can produce offsprings that have severe issues... it is kind of like a gamble I guess you could say...???
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:26 pm

Is it moral to purposely produce animals that have a high probability of being defective?
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:37 pm

It isnt a high probability from what I have read and seen. I don't think morals have anything to do with it... say down the road you see a multiple gene morph you like... you do research of the genetics and find out it has spider in it? Are you going to shy away from creating that morph your self because of the chance that it might have a wobble??? if you research on different morphs, you will find that spider plays a role in some


Caramels are known to have Kinks... has that stopped people from breeding them? not particularly... they are stunning animals as well....

Anyway back to spiders wobble, I found this link from Clay Davenport's site... check it out... it's pretty descriptive of it

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:48 pm

jw wrote:
Is it moral to purposely produce animals that have a high probability of being defective?

i wouldnt consider spiders to be "defective". it has a "trait" that causes it to wobble. its just like in a husky (which people still breed), they have eye problems.....hereditary or juvenile cataracts, corneal dystrophy, and progressive retinal atrophy, but people still breed them. and huskies arent the only breed of dog with problems, many dogs, cats, reptiles, birds, etc etc have "issues" but we still breed them. should we not breed any animal because of the risk of producing one with a genetic defect? does it make ALL those people that breed just about anything immoral?
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:34 pm

smb2585 wrote:
It isnt a high probability from what I have read and seen. I don't think morals have anything to do with it... say down the road you see a multiple gene morph you like... you do research of the genetics and find out it has spider in it? Are you going to shy away from creating that morph your self because of the chance that it might have a wobble???

Absolutely.


Quote :
Caramels are known to have Kinks... has that stopped people from breeding them? not particularly... they are stunning animals as well....

Anyway back to spiders wobble, I found this link from Clay Davenport's site... check it out... it's pretty descriptive of it

http://www.arbreptiles.com/lastword/spider_wobble.shtml

Thanks, good read.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:47 pm

ezekiel21 wrote:
jw wrote:
Is it moral to purposely produce animals that have a high probability of being defective?

i wouldnt consider spiders to be "defective". it has a "trait" that causes it to wobble. its just like in a husky (which people still breed), they have eye problems.....hereditary or juvenile cataracts, corneal dystrophy, and progressive retinal atrophy, but people still breed them. and huskies arent the only breed of dog with problems, many dogs, cats, reptiles, birds, etc etc have "issues" but we still breed them. should we not breed any animal because of the risk of producing one with a genetic defect? does it make ALL those people that breed just about anything immoral?

By definition head wobble is a defect.
In my opinion, anyone that produces any animals with more concern over aesthetics and/or money than the animal's health is amoral.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:58 pm

so do you have ANY health defects? ones that you could possibly pass on to your children? if you do and you know about them would reproducing be immoral? so if i have kids knowing that i WILL pass my high blood pressure on and knowing that cancer runs in my wifes family would that make it wrong? those are genetic defects.... we know they are passed on..... we know we have them...... but yet people with "defect" still have kids. according to you thats wrong, correct?
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:17 pm

our first Vaherps forum Debate i say score 1 Ryan
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:41 pm

gatto152 wrote:
our first Vaherps forum Debate i say score 1 Ryan

lol, thanks gatto. and one quick question...... would the purchasing of a spider be immoral? cause by buying one you are contributing to the production of more spiders. if there was a bunch of moral people who didnt buy spiders then not to many BP breeders would produce them, thus cutting back on their reproduction.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:49 pm

yea welli bought a bumblebee so im as immoral as they come
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:55 pm

gatto152 wrote:
yea welli bought a bumblebee so im as immoral as they come

well i have two spiders..... so i must be immoral squared
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Quite the leap from producing animals for the get trade to having children. This is really apples and oranges and I would not of made this analogy.
However, in my opinion it would be wrong to bring a child to term if you knew in advance that it would have a debilitating condition like, severe mental retardation or a condition that would cause a significant decrease in the quality of life (for a lifetime) for the child/person. Again this strays in to religious beliefs and other aspects that are beyond the scope of producing animals for the pet trade.

I'm not trying to win a debate, only to express my opinion on an issue. I respect Ryan's position and if we have to agree to disagree that's fine. I think a calm friendly discussion of issues can be beneficial.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:04 pm

jw wrote:
Quite the leap from producing animals for the get trade to having children. This is really apples and oranges and I would not of made this analogy.
However, in my opinion it would be wrong to bring a child to term if you knew in advance that it would have a debilitating condition like, severe mental retardation or a condition that would cause a significant decrease in the quality of life (for a lifetime) for the child/person. Again this strays in to religious beliefs and other aspects that are beyond the scope of producing animals for the pet trade.

I'm not trying to win a debate, only to express my opinion on an issue. I respect Ryan's position and if we have to agree to disagree that's fine. I think a calm friendly discussion of issues can be beneficial.

i agree that the two subject differ, but only slighlty.... its the same situation in my opinion. and im gonna have to agree again, i love little debates and discussions and i love when people voice their opinion but not when they question my morality.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:07 pm

Debate Over Both sides were very strong i declare it a tie Score Ryan-1 JW-1
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:15 pm

Sorry, I pretty much question everything, as I have a lot to learn. Also enjoy seeing the views of others.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:19 pm

There are a lot of animals out there that come to us by way of defective traits. Dumbo rats for one.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:59 pm

im still getting my spider because they are on eof my favorites.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:05 pm

not all spider wobble, mine dont. and your right they are a great animal that can be used to make a lot of other cool animals. I say go for it.
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PostSubject: Re: This Season's Plans   Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:06 pm

ax2austin wrote:
im still getting my spider because they are on eof my favorites.

smd58 wrote:
not all spider wobble, mine dont. and your right they are a great animal that can be used to make a lot of other cool animals. I say go for it.

i agree, they are one of my favorite morphs. go for it!!
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