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 Hybrids?

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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:51 am

OK o have heard all different views on hybrid snakes... what's everyone's view on them, good, bad, indifferent, those breeders should be shunned? I'm just generally curious.

My views are I'm not against them, but I think things like burmballs and such are dangerous and could end up making some unhealthy weird snakes. As for hybrids like Bat eaters where its two large species of python, both ground dwellers, and the difference between the two is not as massive as in the burmball mix, I'm OK with it, I actually would like to have a bat eater in a few years...

Also my last question, the one that spurred this post, if you knew a breeder who also had hybrids would that effect whether you bought from them or not. My buddy had made a comment saying if I wanted to have a serious and production breeding business of ball pythons that I should never get a hybrid because from what he has seen breeders that own hybrids or breed them tend to get shunned... I disagreed...
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Peri-Itsy
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:03 am

BHB and NERD have hybrids, I don't shun them I look up to them
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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:17 am

That was my thoughts and feelings on it... I know there will always be people that dislike/hate things like that, but its not what I have seen in the herp communities as common... but I'm just getting into it all
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jw
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:22 pm

Some people like to keep pure strains or location specific animals. While other try to manipulate animals through selective breeding.

I have done both and respect both approaches as long as the process doesn't cause harm to the animals.
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:33 pm

I am completely enchanted by hybrids. It started for me when I was living in GA. GA laws on venomous reptiles, only allows one to keep venomous snakes that are native to the state, meaning we were limited to: Eastern Diamondbacks, Timber Rattlesnakes, Canebrake Rattlesnakes, Pigmy Rattlesnakes, Copperheads, Cottonmouths, and Coral snakes. To expand my verity I began experimenting with hybrids. I had copperhead x cottonmouth hybrids and Eastern Diamondback x Canebrake hybrids. I became the first in the world to produce an F2 copperhead x Cottonmouth hybrid.

Today, I still love my hybrids. Currently I own, Eastern Diamondback x Canebrake, Eastern Diamondback x Western Diamondback, Copperhead x Cottonmouth, Copperhead x Cantil, and a Formosa x Monocle cobra.

My future plans include breeding my Southern Copperhead x Florida Cottonmouth male to my Broad banded Copperhead x Cantil. With 4 species of the akristrodon, I have decided to call these the aquadtrodon, which I think is clever. =) I will be breeding my EDB x Cane to my EDB x WDB, combining the 3 largest rattlesnakes in North America. I call that Crotalus trifecta. While I do not have the male now, I hope to get a male rhino viper and breed him to my female Gabbon viper and female Puff Adder. Also I am hoping to try for a racer x coachwhip. I do not think that has ever been done, but I believe it is possible. I am also looking at a Queen x Garter. Again, never been done, but I think is possible.

For this year, I found my pastel western cotton male locked with my Broad banded copperhead female. If they produced, I am very excited to see them. I had two other copper to cotton pairing, but not sure if any locked. Also put my northern pine male with some female corns. I have seen pine to rat hybrids, so I am sure it can happen, but my pine may be past breeding age, he is one of my most senior animals. Thru some friends, we are trying a male carpet python to a huge female ball python. So, if it takes, I will have a nice Carball.

I know for a fact, hybrids to occur in nature. I have a wild caught copper x cotton that came from Macan, GA. My good friend David Weathers (you may know him from the Jackass movies) Collected an adult female EDB from south GA few years ago, she dropped a litter of EDB x Cane hybrids shortly after. I collected a black rat x corn from Jackson County, AL. I know that the burm and retic overlap in Bangkok…given that, I am sure there are hybrids around. If I was ever given one, I would love to have a burm x retic.

So, I do not think there is anything at all to the school of thought that you will be shunned for having hybrids. If you have what people want and you have the right price, they are going to buy from you. If the person that I hated most was offering an albino cottonmouth at a price I could afford, I would give the money to someone and send them to buy it. Haha.
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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:57 pm

That's crazy chuck, one day I'm going to have to make a trip and see your snakes...

I never really knew about hybrids until relatively recently, I mean granted I only just caught the herp addiction recently as well, but I never knew much about hybrids. I stubbled across burn x ball and it got me interested in them. Personally like I mentioned before i see tons of problems in breeding burm x ball, but only because the size difference. That big of a difference I would think would cause tons of health issues with the off spring. Now I know there has been one successful attempt and the snakes are living and healthy, but who knows.

But with the burm ball I started looking into other hybrids, and I have always wanted a big snake, either a burn or a retic... BAM a bat eater... once I saw them I knew thats the bug snake I want, and I plan to get one once I figure out IL's crazy death sentence laws lol!
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:28 pm

With adults you are looking at a size difference, but have you ever compared a burm egg to a ball egg? If anything the balls are bigger. I am not thinking that will be a big issue. The python hybrids are just for fun, just like the morphs. They are never going back to Asia or Africa. They will in no way influence wild populations. They are just for our enjoyment, and I do enjoy them greatly.

Sure, you are welcome if you are ever in Southwest VA. We do not have a very nice place right now, but I am starting a new job in 2 weeks and Silvia will have her work permit soon, so maybe before long we will have a nicer place and can offer you are spare room if you are passing thru.
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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:34 pm

You make a very good point in the burn vs ball egg size, and realistically hatchling size. I never really thought of it that way. And as for population stuff, I was not even thinking that way, more along the lines of deformed snakes lol. But I guess look at people, a 6'6" man and a 5' woman make normal babies right? You have just given me a whole new perspective on burm balls. Lol

And as for swinging through, first I would never expect anything like a spare room, but if I am in sw va ever I will deff drop you a message and see I can't check out your collection. I honestly enjoy seeing others collections almost as much as I enjoy my own collection. And the fact that you have hots makes it all the more interesting to me.
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:12 pm

Silvia and I love to show them off. We are packed into a small room right now, so it’s not too easy whip out a 6 foot cobra. =) but we work it out. Hopefully we can move into more space soon…make it easier to really allow a good chance to view what we have. I have certain hybrids that you probably will not see anywhere else.
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:14 am

Adult female F1 Southern Copperhead x FL Cottonmouth


The original pairing.


F2 Generation first ever produced.
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allaboutthekings
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:17 am

I was considering trying some hyrids this year
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:34 am

which ones???
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:18 pm

Hybrids are absolutely beautiful. I believe as long as the pairing does not produce deformed offspring, the animals are properly labeled and sold as such, I see no problem in producing hybrids. And of course, as with any captive bred snake, they should never be introduced to wild populations.

I plan on producing hybrids in the future. The pairings will be few and far between but I do plan on producing them.

Chuck, those hybrids are wonderful. cheers
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:48 pm

Thank you!!!!!!!! iagree
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Peri-Itsy
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:52 pm

I am planning on producing blood balls in the near future if anyone is interested
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ChuckHurd
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:55 pm

by all means, if i get my carball, i would like to breed it to a blood ball (often called super balls) that would be great. =)
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:06 pm

I want a blood ball! Its on my "To Get" list.
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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:55 pm

Lol I actually have told my buddy who has a blood we should make some blood balls... and I have been thinking of getting a GTP and looked into GTP x ball but looking into it its supposed to be hard because of the whole tree dealing thing lol..
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Peri-Itsy
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:58 pm

Good to know there is interest, I was gonna breed a female red blood to a mojave male, I figure I should see some interesting outcomes.
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TheRealYoda34
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:16 pm

Definitely... if that transfers over at all it should look very good... I would be interested in a blood ball if you bred them
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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:39 am

I know blood balls have been made. Has anyone been successful in breeding ball python morphs in to the hybrids? This was going to be my first try at hybrids when I get a blood female.
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Peri-Itsy
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:08 pm

Good question, I have no idea but that's not going to stop me from trying, I figured if mojave doesn't work I will move on to another gene and possibly albino after the co doms
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:13 pm

And you'll have to do more than one pairing to find out if the co-dom gene moves over into the hybrid. I'd say after 2 pairings you don't get any mojave blood balls, then it won't transfer to the hybrid.
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allaboutthekings
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:56 pm

I thought about doing imperial pueblans
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Cp3_Pythons
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PostSubject: Re: Hybrids?   Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:50 pm

I'm for hybrid's personally I like them... but I do agree that health and well being of the animal should be the top priority and that any hybrid animal should be sold as such and properly labeled. If and when I or anyone produce's hybrid's the female used won't be bred again unless it's the same pairing.
I've heard the up's down's lefts rights good and bad as well but it boils down to one thing what you like and what you prefer.
Putting morphs into a species is also a reason it's done although even if and it has passed along in some breeding's I don't think I would breed them back to see if the morph could happen and if did it would take time to work out the other species that was used to introduce the morph into another species to be back to working with a pure line of the species...

I hope this make's sense for those of you that know me I'm sure it will for others IDK may seem like a random person rambling on....
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