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 The Lacy Act

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Don
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PostSubject: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:15 pm

Posted in another thread:

"the Lacy act which was just expanded to include Burms and other large snakes this year, was written in 1900 was designed to protect endangered species. Of course, our government keeps expanding the law to restrict species. So, instead of protecting native species, the law is now used to restrict imports and movement of non-native species. Classic example of putting in a law that sounds good, then it is used to increase authority to restrict and control. "

What is even more interesting about the Lacy act is that it requires the US government to enforce wildlife laws in other countries. So, if another country has a law against the exportation of an animal, but does not enforce their own law, the US can enforce that law with the weight of a felony, if the animal comes into the United States. The more I learn about this law, the more reaching I see that it has become.

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jw
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:45 pm

I've been informed that the importation of all reptiles and amphibians for the pet trade will be "phased-out" in the not so distant future. I don't know if the Lacy Act has this type of power or if another mechanism is needed.
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Jabberwocky Dragons
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:41 pm

Don wrote:


What is even more interesting about the Lacy act is that it requires the US government to enforce wildlife laws in other countries. So, if another country has a law against the exportation of an animal, but does not enforce their own law, the US can enforce that law with the weight of a felony, if the animal comes into the United States. The more I learn about this law, the more reaching I see that it has become.



This requirement is what was used to seize millions of dollars worth of (Ebony?) wood from Gibson Guitars. They had legal permits from India, signed off by Indian Government officials, but Holder or one of his people stated that they would be interpreting India's laws and the Indian government papers were legally worthless. Gibson, like USARK is trying to do, is now suing or attempting to sue the Federal Government for corruption and breach of power. Many many craftsman who have been making guitars for decades are now facing the loss of their living withe few other work options. The Lacey Act affects much more than the pet trade.
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Cp3_Pythons
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:08 pm

Don't you just love are wonderful government?
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Don
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:15 pm

Brian, that is absolutely a perfect example of the over reaching. India issued papers and Holder said he would enforce India's laws and didn't care that India was not a party to the prosecution. BTW, these are felonies not misdemeanors.
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:22 pm

Cp3_Pythons wrote:
Don't you just love are wonderful government?
I loved them even more today when I paid my income tax bill again, they now get just over 11% of my income.
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:26 pm

Steve, calculate again. Add up your social security tax, Medicare tax, federal income tax, state income tax, personal property tax and real estate taxes. It will add up to much more than 11 percent. That doesnt even count sales tax and the other myriad of fees from local and state government.
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smd58
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:30 pm

So true didn't even count all those, I don't mind working, kind of don't mind supporting my old living at home kids, but the taxes are gitting to be to much.
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b_rickard
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:23 pm

The Lacey Act along with CITES are stupid pieces of trade restrictions. They do nothing to curb species decline. A perfect example is the Gopher Tortoise. You can still cover a burrow with the animal still inside and let it die a long death just for the sake of a stupid strip mall, but I cannot take them out of their death trap before they are paved over and try and propagate them! On top of that neither of these do anything to combat habitat loss or fragmentation.
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smd58
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:36 pm

Laws/government VS Common Sence
The winner is not the intended animal, plant or habitat.
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Cp3_Pythons
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:44 pm

If are government had just one lick of common sense WOW they'd be dangerous then... Sometimes I seriously think my 5 yr old son could do a better job at running this country...

I'm not for this party or that party... Simply give me someone who can do the job and actually stand behind what they say, have there own set... and not be a political puppet.
It's well IMHO sad to see how far we have came and to sit and think will this be are demise are very government we placed into power... they say things have to get worse before they get better... Imma leave this thread alone... Politics isn't a good subject for me...
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bcr229
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:34 pm

Sorry to bring up a necro thread, but the public comment period is now open to bring five more snake species under the Lacy Act's regulations, including prohibiting new imports and sale/transport across state lines:
Boa Constrictor (which would include all subspecies BCC, BCI, BCA, BCL, etc)
Reticulated Python
DeSchauensee's Anaconda
Green Anaconda
Beni Anaconda

The complete text of the proposed rule is at http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015-4570

You can submit a comment at http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=FWS-R9-FHC-2008-0015-4570
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Deedle
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:53 pm

I'll be making my full comment tonight. Everyone that keeps reptiles or pets in general should be commenting you're not far behind to be put on this list. The will eventually use dwarf retics and boas as a reason to get ball pythons on this list.

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ClarkeReptiles
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:07 pm

I'll write up something tonight and post it tomorrow. I will also share this so some of my reptile friends can comment also. Thanks for the link!!
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bcr229
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PostSubject: Talking Points   Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:46 am

- The Everglades are not "overrun" by large constrictor snakes; in the python hunt in Florda last year, 1500 volunteers only found 68 snakes in 30 days (Source: ABC News), and groups like Swamp Apes are finding three per month on average (source http://news.yahoo.com/battle-everglades-vets-versus-pythons-091334351--abc-news-topstories.html).

- The snakes listed can not establish populations in most states due to the environment; these are tropical species that sicken and die at low temperatures.

- Adverse economic impact of adding these snakes to the Lacy Act: How much do you spend on your snake hobby each year on average, and where do you spend it? Include feeders, supplies, vet bills, shipping, travel, tools (if you DIY), etc.

- If you're in the reptile/animal business, adverse economic impact on your business - will it shut you down, loss of tax revenue to the state/feds, etc.

- Public safety concerns of having to keep the animals within a state. Example: my closest exotic vet is an hour away in Virginia but I'm in West Virginia. The closest in-state exotic vet is five hours away. How does adding eight hours of travel time increase public safety?

- The Lacy Act was passed to protect endangered species in other countries by prohibiting smuggling of animals from their native ranges into the US. The species up for consideration are not endangered.
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Running_Elk
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:44 pm

Deedle wrote:
I'll be making my full comment tonight.  Everyone that keeps reptiles or pets in general should be commenting you're not far behind to be put on this list.  The will eventually use dwarf retics and boas as a reason to get ball pythons on this list.  


If someone tried to take my ball pythons away I swear...It'd be a fight they'd remember. Sad

It's all these AR groups. They push ideas that *sound* good to people who don't keep reptiles or other exotic animals. A lot of people dislike or are wary of snakes -- some idiot starves his retic or burm and once every few years one of those idiots gets killed by his own snake -- or tragically his kids get killed or something. The media, HSUS, and PETA blow it up and are like, "See? SEE!? I told you they were wild animals and NO ONE should have them!" Never mind that pitbulls (or dogs in general) maul notable numbers of people annually and it goes under the radar, and death by exotic animal is almost a freak incident that is always the fault of a bad keeper.

It's easy to convince a bunch of people that already don't care for snakes that owning a 15 foot one is a bad idea. Unfortunately.

It's also easy to convince people who THINK they care about animals but aren't informed -- people who mean well -- that keeping them is an injustice. AR people take advantage of that.
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Deedle
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:26 am

So you'd fight if they tried to take your balls away? You should of been commenting and fighting for the current cause. Below is a 1 year old Super Dwarf Retic, she was less than 400 grams and she eats like a monster weekly never misses a meal.



Guess what, these will be banned because they are retics, your ball pythons won't be far away. And I can tell you this you will have a lot LESS support because people will start to get out of the hobby that only care for these large constrictors.


It's not starving animals, were at less than 1 Death per year from Captive Reptiles that includes Venomous as well.




We also have to fight Local Legislation, our Neighbors in WV are in some serious **** right now, it those bills are passed then you can bet your *** others will try to follow suit.
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Running_Elk
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:06 am

Deedles, with all due respect, I've been fighting, petitioning, and posting about the Lacy act since the first day I was made aware. I did the same for HR669. Whether or not I own large snakes is not the issue, because one, I support the reptile community and all it encompasses, and two, I know that the AR people have no intention of stopping, even when cats and dogs are the only legal pets left they'll be trying to 'liberate' them too. As for my comment about starving animals, that was my point - the amount of people who get killed by their captive reptiles is so small it's not worth mention, yet when it happens, it's blown up to huge proportions by the media and AR groups. In all of those few cases it's because of mishandling by one careless, irresponsible or bad keeper, yet it's the animals and the hobby who pays the biggest price. In at least one of those few cases, what I was referencing, it happened because the snake was so severely underfed, the keeper handled it while intoxicated and got what was coming to him, though I want to tell you the snake died too upon trying to ingest him I don't remember when and where that one case happened, but I believe it was a burm, and I remember how big of a deal was made about it at the time. My point was this; for the one person who gets hurt by their reptile....per year? Every few years? Every decade? Vast amounts of people get mauled by dogs -- family dogs, stray dogs, friends dogs, etc. Yet the one person who did something irresponsible and got injured by an exotic pet is brought to the spotlight and blown up as if it were an everyday crisis instead of a rare freak incident. The media sensationalizes the odd incidences that do happen, and the AR people use that to push their agenda. That was my point...


Last edited by Running_Elk on Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Running_Elk
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:12 am

I think maybe you misunderstood. I'll fight for the cause now, through petitions, supporting USARK, and sharing of information, etc. What I meant when I said I'd fight someone who tried to take away my ball pythons was very literal; that if anyone ever tried to physically come into my home and take my snakes, I will kick their *** so hard they won't remember what they were even doing. My snakes are not going anywhere no matter what ANY act tells me, not if I can help it. And if I move and cross state lines, they'll go too.

I guess that's a silly hypothetical in the first place, but I'll be honest I've had a bad dream or two about it before since HR669 (which was a threat to my ferrets and short-tailed opossum I had at the time as well, not to mention the entire pet industry outside of cats and dogs). I am very dedicated to my snakes and it would kill me if something happened to them.



Deedle, what's happening in WV right now? I'm actually out of the loop on that.
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Deedle
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:50 am

Well the Lacey Act they don't take your snakes, and never will. There is currently no law anywhere when they come and take your animals.  I do believe some people would be willing to take it that far however.  It will limit your market and new morphs would be pretty much non-exsistent after some time with the Lacey Act.  

As far as right now, the comment period is over, it ended the 24th.  This was the biggest way of showing support on a public forum.  USARK still needs help and RAACA still needs donations for the next auction.  (Reptile And Amphibian Charity Auctions) this one everything goes to USARK.  If you're not a donor, or a bidder share it at least!  Won't be bidding on anything myself as all my funds are going to be tied into moving next month.
http://www.raaca.net/

WV I know is having issues along with several other states.  Currently I'm in the process of writting a letter in reguards to the WV bill.  I used the maxium Characters allowed on the Constrictor rule comment twice and submitted 8 comments in total myself.  

You have to realize talking to folks over the last few months (Ball Python Folks) most of them pay this any attention because it doesn't affect them currently.  I have a list of ball python folks that I know commented and supported the comment period encouraging other Ball Folks to step up.  The response overall was quite weak for forums/groups with so many members.  

HSUS evidently had 23,000 letters written supporting the adding of the 5 listed, and the reptile community had a total of 4,000 or so comments (which a lot of folks commented multiple times).  I do believe they approved and that 4k comments isn't a 1/3 of what was submitted I think they approved selected ones.

Hopefully they take notice
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Running_Elk
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PostSubject: Re: The Lacy Act   Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:12 am

I hope so too. Sad
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